4th wall? what's that?

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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Loyal Subject on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:00 pm

are you kidding as to who the red font is or are you kidding about the overall post O-o.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  zfish9 on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:01 pm

Sorry, need to organize my thoughts and think about what Roister would do.

Yeah, I already know you'll say no problem, take your time (so long as it's not days). Just had to state why.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Lee on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:01 pm

About the post.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Loyal Subject on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:03 pm

gotcha.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Loyal Subject on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:52 pm

I thought I'd post what I said in the other thread just in case we wanted to continue the conversation.

Also, I don't think this part of the story is falling flat. Actually, I think it's more interesting if one person is with Ai and another is not. Think of this way, if everyone hated Ai for what she did, Ai isn't going to defend herself; she'd just let everyone leave her and then the scene would end. There wouldn't be as much conflict as there is now because now you've got one person saying a definitive "no" and another who insists on leaving her. And then you have Kozue who doesn't want to take sides yet. There's a lot of potential and direction that could go as opposed to just everyone being like 'we're leaving you.' and Ai being completely separated.


OOC: well, this is my take on it from my perspective.

Ryuzaki told Ai he wouldn't do anything with her around. So Ai stayed with him. If she stays with him all the time, he can't do anything in her mind. Plus, he did say nothing would happen in the wilderness and at that point, Ai still trusted him enough where if he said nothing would happen, nothing would happen. Obviously, Lee nor Roister knows this but...still.

Anyway, I don't think Roister is taking this too lightly. He has known that she was trying to say something that was bothering her so he knows she genuinely is not proud of what she has done. Lee does not know this as much.

I also don't remember how much of this the group is aware of, but I was under the impression the Fire Nation had infiltrated the town pretty well thus far. So, if Ai did talk to authorities, it could have in the long run done everyone more harm because then the Fire Nation would know she was spreading those rumors around. And you all would have been involved and you all could have been killed. Obviously, no one knew that when it was happening but now there's the potential to realize that now and realize that even though Ai screwed up badly, it wasn't a complete screw up. Again, that's just pure speculation and I don't remember how much we remember as characters. But if I'm thinking right, Roister could easily be thinking this as well since he's smart and he has a tendency to remain calm.

There's also the fact that Ai has consistently forgiven, giving people second chances. yeah, it's kind of a fault but she has done this with almost everyone she has met thus far. And now Ai is seeking forgiveness and you're not going to give it to her? That's pretty harsh considering if Lee or Roister were in a similar situation, she would forgive you.

Also, Roister's thinking more rationally, I think. Are you really going to split the group up and dump someone who's got high connections in Ba Sing Se? While COAL may go to Zito, that's a pretty stupid move. Plus, even though it's unlikely, Ai could always go and rat everyone out and find COAL and tell them you guys ran away. she wouldn't do that but when someone's in a emotional state like Ai, they can easily be vindictive. Especially when someone in the group accuses you of being in a complete conspiracy based on a stereotype i.e. being from the fire nation.

And finally, Roister knows Ai more than he knew Rosso. While it's unfortunate, you tend to side more with the person you know better than the person you don't. It's easier for Roister to forgive Ai because I feel like he didn't know Rosso that well. He knows Ai well enough now though where he will be more forgiving of Ai. Lee spent more time with Rosso therefore he has more reason to be angry.

I keep saying finally, but more evidence keeps coming to my mind. At that point where Ai made the mistake, she didn't know Ryuzaki was in cahoots with the fire nation. She just thought he was a bounty hunter or something. So, that wouldn't be endangering the group; that would be endangering just Rosso. It's not like she didn't care about anyone else, she was trying to convince Ryuzaki not to hurt Rosso and to stop. Bounty Hunting may not be illegal in the avatar world. From my understanding, it's not. And Ai's attitude starts to change after she realizes he's not an average bounty hunter or whatever.

Like I said though, that's just my opinion. Basically, I think there are a number of reasons Roister could be siding with Ai.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Lee on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:54 pm

I missed a few of Roister's posted words, so it came out entirely different. That's another reason...and about the only one for me now lol.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Loyal Subject on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:57 pm

yeah i saw the post, i saw that after i did that lol.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  zfish9 on Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:58 pm

Copy+paste for refrence

OOC: I wasn't going to post this, just in case it screwed up Lee, but LS already posted hers, so if it screws Lee up again, It's due to LS.

To be honest, I think you can partially blame Higurashi for Roister's reaction. Higurashi (after a few arcs) emphasizes the point of trusting your friends no matter what. In fact, there's a scene where one of the main characters goes crazy and kills a pimp and his employee (For lack of a better word that the filter will accept.) scamming money off her father. Her friends forgive her and help her bury the bodies. I'm pretty sure this is where part of Roister's reaction is coming from, mainly due to my current obsession with Higurashi.

More in character:

Also, Roister isn't taking this as lightly as you think, he's just going about this another way. You know the phrase "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer?" Roister is going to keep more of an eye on Ai. Roister was going to do this whether Ai stayed with them or not. this way, if Ai is actually with the Fire Nation, Roister can see if anyone tries to contact her or leave her any sort of message.

Yes, I am well aware that contradicts my first point of trusting your friends, but it's Roister. He's cynical and figures keeping an eye on her wouldn't hurt.

Lastly, Roister isn't asking Lee to apologize or forgive Ai for what she did. He knows that's not an option, and won't be for some time. Hell, Roister himself wouldn't forgive her if he knew Rosso like Lee did.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Loyal Subject on Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:03 pm

honestly, im still kind of shocked both characters believe Ai can actually pull off being a mole for the Fire Nation lol.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Lee on Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:09 pm

It's usually the ones that you don't expect. Anyone can take on a fake but believable personification.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Loyal Subject on Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:12 pm

yeah but we're talking about Ai....lol XD.

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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  zfish9 on Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:29 pm

Lee and Roister aren't ruling out that the Ditsy, incompetent Ai they know could have been a facade from the very very start.

...Wow, can you make that any blunter?
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Loyal Subject on Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:38 pm

i actually had a response to this but it totally slipped my mind.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Lee on Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:38 pm

Like mother, like daughter?
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Loyal Subject on Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:47 pm

yes. lol
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Lee on Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:21 am

Actually, I think it's more interesting if one person is with Ai and another is not. Think of this way, if everyone hated Ai for what she did, Ai isn't going to defend herself; she'd just let everyone leave her and then the scene would end.

Well before I read Roister's posts correctly, it seemed totally different. It sort of reminded me of a character from Fire Emblem, Miciah (or however you spell her name)

She's one of the newer main characters from the recent Wii title. In the game, in order to save her village of Daien, she'll stop at nothing. I'm stating things off the top of my head, but there might be more/less then I remember.

There are these species called Laguz, they're basically humanoid animals of the beast, bird, and dragon tribe. Humans and Laguz don't really get along too well, so they avoid contact and live far away.

In the last game, which revolved around Ike and the Greil Mercenaries (the Wii title does to) they had to stop the destructive tyranny of Daien's military which was taking everything over.

Now with Daien crushed in the second game and trying to recuperate, Michiah signs a blood contract on her nation Daien by some creepy guy claiming to be a ruler. (Just because she wants Daien to rise, how would it with that?)

Eventually she leads a army to restore it or something. At the same time Ike and his group are trying to help border tensions with the Laguz, by gaining them their rights. To make matters worst she orders her groups to mindlessly kill Laguz at every corner and also uses her soldiers like puppets for distraction purposes all in the name of Daien.

Now I know Ai didn't do anything like this, but it kind of reminded me of it. Miciah didn't do any of it, but knowingly allowed it for Daien. Same thing with Ai knowingly allowing things for Ryuzaki.

That's not really what I was getting at though. Throughout the game no one ever called her out on it, except for Soren (Which was really needed). It was probably one of the best cut-scene parts from the game. Though no one agrees with him.

When I misread Roister's posts, it seemed totally like this. It still does now, sorta that I can't get it out of my mind.

I also don't remember how much of this the group is aware of, but I was under the impression the Fire Nation had infiltrated the town pretty well thus far. So, if Ai did talk to authorities, it could have in the long run done everyone more harm because then the Fire Nation would know she was spreading those rumors around.
Not really. The village was still under Earth Kingdom control, even the tournament. You can't have too many people coming in, things would seem fishy. That's why Ryuzaki and a select few only came into play. Why send them in under a disguise if the place is already filled with Fire Nation?

Anyway, that is a good speculation, but not something Ai knew about. So you really can't use that in Ai's defense. She wouldn't had known that at the time. Plus at the time we didn't know how much involvement Susano wanted with the Fire Nation. For all we know it could had just been Abarai and Ryuzaki.

And you all would have been involved and you all could have been killed.
I find that hard to believe... Razz


There's also the fact that Ai has consistently forgiven, giving people second chances. yeah, it's kind of a fault but she has done this with almost everyone she has met thus far. And now Ai is seeking forgiveness and you're not going to give it to her?
Again why are you involving me in this? Did Lee fuse with me? If I had someone tell me such news, even if they didn't commit the murder with their own hands, they'd still be responsible in some way.

Had it been a friend, like Rosso, I wouldn't be able to say it's ok either. I know it sounds great/heroic/and all to say it's ok, we're friends to the end, but that's kinda cliche. It would take a lot of time for me to forgive someone like that.

I would feel a little too betrayed to even consider accepting an apology. It's easy to ask for one, but hard to earn it. You can't betray someone and expect everything to be forgiven the moment it happened or was explained.

Put yourself in their shoes. What if your friend said he/she was responsible for another one of your friends deaths, because they knew another friend was going to kill them, but didn't do anything about it?

Are you really going to split the group up and dump someone who's got high connections in Ba Sing Se?
And by the time she finds him, the group will be old, gray, and bald.

Plus, even though it's unlikely, Ai could always go and rat everyone out and find COAL and tell them you guys ran away
Wouldn't that just make her another accomplice? Because she waited to long to tattle on them?

Especially when someone in the group accuses you of being in a complete conspiracy based on a stereotype i.e. being from the fire nation.
Lee was from the Fire Nation as well. They're not using that reason for their thoughts, their basing their accusations on the fact that she was partnered with Ryuzaki.

I keep saying finally, but more evidence keeps coming to my mind. At that point where Ai made the mistake, she didn't know Ryuzaki was in cahoots with the fire nation. She just thought he was a bounty hunter or something.
She did? There was nothing in the RP that explained that, but I stuck that in the FF. Did you read of the FF for that part or was it actually one of her original thoughts?

Whether bounty hunting is illegal or not, I don't think it is in the US either, it still doesn't change the fact that Ai could had done more. That's sorta one of the things I was getting at. She sorta played it by ear and just hoped everything went well.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Loyal Subject on Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:05 pm

[/quote]
Not really. The village was still under Earth Kingdom control, even the tournament. You can't have too many people coming in, things would seem fishy. That's why Ryuzaki and a select few only came into play. Why send them in under a disguise if the place is already filled with Fire Nation?

Anyway, that is a good speculation, but not something Ai knew about. So you really can't use that in Ai's defense. She wouldn't had known that at the time. Plus at the time we didn't know how much involvement Susano wanted with the Fire Nation. For all we know it could had just been Abarai and Ryuzaki. [/quote]

i wasn't using that in Ai's defense. im saying, from the perspective of Roister and everyone else but Ai, if they knew after the fact that the Fire Nation had control of the village then Ai not telling was probably a better thing than her telling in the long run. It's not part of Ai's defense for why she did it, it's part of her defense for why the group shouldn't just ditch her. But as you said, the Fire Nation didn't have control so...yeah. I was under the impression they had more control than we knew about because of how they executed the take over of the village.



Again why are you involving me in this? Did Lee fuse with me? If I had someone tell me such news, even if they didn't commit the murder with their own hands, they'd still be responsible in some way.

Had it been a friend, like Rosso, I wouldn't be able to say it's ok either. I know it sounds great/heroic/and all to say it's ok, we're friends to the end, but that's kinda cliche. It would take a lot of time for me to forgive someone like that.

I would feel a little too betrayed to even consider accepting an apology. It's easy to ask for one, but hard to earn it. You can't betray someone and expect everything to be forgiven the moment it happened or was explained.

Put yourself in their shoes. What if your friend said he/she was responsible for another one of your friends deaths, because they knew another friend was going to kill them, but didn't do anything about it?

i was saying "you" as in "Lee and Roister". it's more like "you all." and i wasn't suggesting to forgive her completely but to at least forgive her enough not to ditch her in the middle of Ba Sing Se where you know she could easily get caught by COAL and be severely punished by them. at the same time, the group didn't find out the hard way, she told them because the guilt was clearly bothering her. and, if they take into consideration (not necessarily believing it but at least thinking about it) that Ai may be telling the truth and it may have been a mistake but she's not with the Fire Nation, as I said, if either Lee or Roister were in her position she would never ditch them in the middle of a gigantic city. knowing that about Ai, which they should at this point have figured out since she's defended both Ryuzaki and Karin to the group, ditching her in the city is pretty harsh. especially from the reader's standpoint because the reader already knows Ai isn't with the Fire Nation.

but as i said, if Roister was thinking more rationally, I would think he would take into consideration that she may not be with the Fire Nation and therefore she wouldn't have left either of them in the city by themselves if they were in her position. as i said.



And by the time she finds him, the group will be old, gray, and bald.

not really. as long as she knows his name (which i hope she would XD) and says she's lost, it really wouldn't be that hard to find him. you just go to the police station...or the equivalent of it...


Wouldn't that just make her another accomplice? Because she waited to long to tattle on them?

I don't know about you but if I apologized for something, cried my eyes out and realized I was wrong and my close friends left me in a huge city, I'd be pretty pissed after the fact. I don't think I would rat them out but I'm sure there are people that would be pissed enough where they would say "f*ck it" and go to COAL and rat them all out. Like I said, Ai wouldn't do it but if Lee and Roister are suspecting she's working with the Fire Nation, you bet your ass she'd tell on them. If I was working for the Fire Nation, I would. Especially if Ryuzaki was my boss...I mean, that guys scary now. I'd rather have the group in trouble with COAL and me knowing where they are than them running around Ba Sing Se.


Lee was from the Fire Nation as well. They're not using that reason for their thoughts, their basing their accusations on the fact that she was partnered with Ryuzaki.

never mind, i read the post i was thinking of at the time wrong lol.


She did? There was nothing in the RP that explained that, but I stuck that in the FF. Did you read of the FF for that part or was it actually one of her original thoughts?

Whether bounty hunting is illegal or not, I don't think it is in the US either, it still doesn't change the fact that Ai could had done more. That's sorta one of the things I was getting at. She sorta played it by ear and just hoped everything went well.

I thought he was some sort of bounty hunter thing from the beginning. not exactly a bounty hunter (which is why i said, bounty hunter or whatever) but Ai thought something like 'oh maybe he's in trouble with the Fire Nation like Zuko and Iroh. maybe he wants to find Rosso because that's his job or something.' it was one of those moments where essentially she was thinking 'bounty hunter' but never called him that. and that was mostly because i didn't realize i was thinking of a bounty hunter at the time XD. i was just thinking 'some person that goes after other people'. Ai never thought he was working with the Fire Nation until after the cave. that's why I thought Ryuzaki was talking about Zuko and Iroh when he said to her what she would do if he went after her friends. I thought he was going after Zuko and Iroh because he was that 'person that goes after other people on the wanted posters' XD.

thats kind of why Ai was so convinced that Ryuzaki was a good person. she believed Ryuzaki was going after Rosso not because he wanted to but because he had to. whether it was part of his job, a means to survive, or he was forced to do it. That's why she asked him that at one point and he said 'no i want to'. and Ai got upset and asked for more answers. she didn't think he genuinely wanted to kill, she thought there was an important reason behind it.

and now that it's part of the fanfiction, it's technically cannon anyway so Ai is justified in that sense.

im pretty sure bounty hunting is legal in the avatar universe. there are so many Western references, wanted posters, and Jun that leads me to believe it's a totally legal profession. Jun leads me to believe if you run into a bounty hunter, you really can't do anything when a bounty hunter's on a job. and if it's anything like True Grit, the more people you tell, the worse you make the situation. you'd risk more lives than just the one the bounty hunter's going after.

im not saying Ai was thinking that because she wasn't completely thinking that. but she was thinking 'maybe i can convince Ryuzaki he should leave Rosso alone.' she was under the impression that Ryuzaki had essentially given up hope and was going after Rosso for another reason other than a simple 'i want to kill her'. so she was trying to help him and by helping him would save Rosso. of course, the problem was she still should have told someone.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Lee on Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:26 pm

He was going after her to pay off his sake tab.

Interesting points though. I kind of just based/copied off the episode Bato of the Watertribe, where Sokka and Katara ditch Aang for screwing them.

He was guilty to in his own way, with a lesser crime I would be inclined to say. Though they still acted harshly and left him, despite his pleas that he was sorry.

I don't know about you but if I apologized for something, cried my eyes out and realized I was wrong and my close friends left me in a huge city, I'd be pretty pissed after the fact.
Would they really be considered close though? I mean we've been at this RP for years, but it's only been about three weeks.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Loyal Subject on Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:47 pm

and it's Bato who has to tell them 'hey...maybe you guys shouldn't have been so harsh...' lol. really, i was kind of pissed when they both just ditched Aang. especially since i always saw Katara as the kind of person who wouldn't leave Aang. which is why i thought it was better that the group was divided in leaving Ai. it seemed more realistic that the group would be divided as opposed to everyone just being 'let's go guys.' lol XD

as for being close, Ai gets close to people very easily. she really only had Lee and Zito in her life with other people being jerks to her most of the time. so, being surrounded by people that actually like her when they know she's a firebender is a pretty special thing for her. that's why she gets so close to people; she's not use to people liking her and she doesn't want to lose the friendships she has. so yeah, even though maybe Lee, Roister, and Kozue don't consider being close, Ai does. and when you go through with that they went through, id say you get closer to people more easily and in a shorter amount of time.

so yeah, id say at least Ai feels they're close even though it hasn't been very long.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  zfish9 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:01 pm

Loyal Subject wrote:but as i said, if Roister was thinking more rationally, I would think he would take into consideration that she may not be with the Fire Nation and therefore she wouldn't have left either of them in the city by themselves if they were in her position. as i said.

Roister did think that, and if we weren't attacked and Lee left, Roister would have stayed with her if only because he knew she couldn't live off of burnt water I can't remember, did I already say that? Joking aside, I think in the dream sequence (after we were drugged by coal in our sleep. At least i think that's where it was.) somewhere in Roister's dream it implied that he regretted abandoning his friends in Omashu, and he didn't want to do the same thing to Ai.

Loyal Subject wrote:as for being close, Ai gets close to people very easily. she really only had Lee and Zito in her life with other people being jerks to her most of the time. so, being surrounded by people that actually like her when they know she's a firebender is a pretty special thing for her. that's why she gets so close to people; she's not use to people liking her and she doesn't want to lose the friendships she has. so yeah, even though maybe Lee, Roister, and Kozue don't consider being close, Ai does. and when you go through with that they went through, id say you get closer to people more easily and in a shorter amount of time.

so yeah, id say at least Ai feels they're close even though it hasn't been very long.

I think getting close to people is also one of Ai's better flaws. (Ryuzaki)
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Loyal Subject on Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:13 pm

awww that's so nice of Roister :). Roister and Ai became close pretty quickly i think. who'd of thunk it.

and yes, Ai getting close to people easily is definitely a flaw. it wouldn't surprise me if she at one point became BFFs with Dumpling Man.


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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Lee on Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:24 pm

Loyal Subject wrote:and it's Bato who has to tell them 'hey...maybe you guys shouldn't have been so harsh...' lol. really, i was kind of pissed when they both just ditched Aang.
It makes it more interesting though, so sometimes I guess some things need to be sacrificed so the audience stays glued.

What do you think the audience (if not you) would like to see more. Some interesting drama where they leave Aang (momentarily of course) or one where they're all like, it's ok Aangy-Poo.

I know everyone always wants the main people to do the morally right thing or whatever, but seriously sometimes it's just not believable.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Loyal Subject on Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:53 pm

im not saying i wanted both of them to go crying to Aang. i was expecting Sokka and Katara to argue or something. but then again they only had 24 minutes or so they dont have as much time.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Lee on Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:01 pm

I would hate that though, and I'm, pretty sure a lot of others would as well. That would just be a little too much drama for me. I guess some have a sweet tooth for that kind of drama, I don't though.

To me the amount of drama they had was perfect. It was effective and it only lasted long enough so as to not make it stale. An argument would just be a little too much.

Also I think we've all used the burnt water reference, along with many other cooking jokes.

Also again, the thing with Lee is (since we're all talking about why abandon friends) is that he's thinking what kind of friend keeps such secrets from them?

A person who is conflicted between two sides. Which I keep repeating. I know you're explaining motivations for Ai's behalf on this, but I can't help but still see evidence of selfishness in it.

With characters like Roister and Kozue, they never even interacted with Rosso in the least. I don't think there's one sentence where they ever acknowledge each other.

It's even more messed up, when this character gives their prized possession relic of their family to two people they consider friends. You know that piece she breaks off and gives it to Lee and Ai to guarantee them as friends?

She gives a piece to Lee way before the ambush when they're still in the village, but give the last piece to Ai when she's in the woods (when Rosso is about to die)

She opens up to Ai, expressing their friendship only to be turned down because Ai can't bring herself to do what is morally right. In it's own way, it's sort of like what is happening now, but in a different way.

Ai expresses her sorrow to friends she expects she has, only to be shut down, like she had done before. I just thought about this bit, and I thought it was interesting to share with you all.

I actually might re-work it in some of the older chapters, so that future references don't seem so awkward.
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Re: 4th wall? what's that?

Post  Loyal Subject on Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:45 pm

Lee wrote:I would hate that though, and I'm, pretty sure a lot of others would as well. That would just be a little too much drama for me. I guess some have a sweet tooth for that kind of drama, I don't though.

To me the amount of drama they had was perfect. It was effective and it only lasted long enough so as to not make it stale. An argument would just be a little too much.

i wouldn't have wanted a huge argument. just a simple, someone goes and someone stays. it doesn't have to be overly dramatic. but like i said, they wouldn't have had enough time to resolve that so it makes sense for them to do what they did. im just saying as a spectator, it was a little surprising and somewhat annoying that Katara ended up going with Sokka.


Also again, the thing with Lee is (since we're all talking about why abandon friends) is that he's thinking what kind of friend keeps such secrets from them?

A person who is conflicted between two sides. Which I keep repeating. I know you're explaining motivations for Ai's behalf on this, but I can't help but still see evidence of selfishness in it.

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about here. Are you talking about when Ai first kept it from them before Rosso died or after? Because Ai kept it from everyone else before Rosso died because she cared about Ryuzaki and, as Lee said, didn't want him to 'get in trouble'. That was the initial reason. Obviously, it was more complicated than that but that was the main reason. Which is why Ai was afraid to tell everyone for such a long time. She knew what she did was wrong and she was afraid to tell them because she was afraid they would not forgive her and never would.

Think of it this way, Ai knows she did something bad. She knows she screwed up as soon as Rosso dies. Right after that this is what happens:

-Ryuzaki betrays them. Ai somewhat defends him. Group essentially says they don't like him anymore and don't forgive him for what he did.
-Karin betrays them. Ai tries to forgive Karin and let her make up for it. Group is still angry with Karin and says she's gaining trust again for selfish reasons.
-Ai sees Lee freak out during their training with COAL. that whole 'he's going to cut me up and put me under the floorboard' paranoia scene ensues.

While the last one was mostly done for comedy, since Ai sees this repeated pattern of 'someone in the group screwed up and sometimes said person tries to make up for it but the rest of the group doesn't really buy it' how do you think she's going to feel about confessing the fact that she screwed up? I don't know about you but if I kept seeing that pattern, I wouldn't want to tell anyone either lol. I guess you can say she didn't want to tell anyone for selfish reasons but what it really comes down to is she didn't think she'd be forgiven and she didn't want to lose the friendships she had. But she realized she had to tell them because she couldn't live with herself if she never told them and lied to them because she cares about them and she doesn't want to keep things from them.

My arguments before were ways that Roister could have interpreted Ai's apology as opposed to the 'oh she's a traitor and may still be working for the Fire Nation' theory.


It's even more messed up, when this character gives their prized possession relic of their family to two people they consider friends. You know that piece she breaks off and gives it to Lee and Ai to guarantee them as friends?

She gives a piece to Lee way before the ambush when they're still in the village, but give the last piece to Ai when she's in the woods (when Rosso is about to die)

She opens up to Ai, expressing their friendship only to be turned down because Ai can't bring herself to do what is morally right. In it's own way, it's sort of like what is happening now, but in a different way.

I'm going to be totally honest with you and say that I forgot about that piece Rosso had given Ai for most of the time because it felt so random and weird when it happened that it just slipped my mind. And, honestly, it was so out of character in terms of both their relationships because Ai had barely spent time with Rosso prior to that. I can understand giving it to Lee but I STILL don't understand why she gave the piece to Ai. It's like how we all are wondering what Ai was doing in the beginning of the RP and joke that she was on drugs. When we were in the wilderness I kept thinking to myself 'what is Rosso doing?' because I just did not get why she was acting the way she was. so that was my screw up and less of Ai screwing up as a character.

and im not sure how that's similar to what's going on now.


Ai expresses her sorrow to friends she expects she has, only to be shut down, like she had done before. I just thought about this bit, and I thought it was interesting to share with you all.

I actually might re-work it in some of the older chapters, so that future references don't seem so awkward.

ok, if this is part of that other reference that i didn't understand, i kind of get it now. and i think it's interesting. because you're saying Ai shut down a lot of what the others were saying in the very beginning when she was 'on drugs' and now she needs someone and they're shutting her down right? i think it's definitely true what you're saying and in a way what goes around comes around for Ai.

however, i feel like there's still a difference between what happened before Ryuzaki's betrayal and after Ryuzaki's betrayal. and im not entirely sure where this fits into the conversation but i still think it's interesting to look at and i kind of thought about this a couple of days ago but haven't had a chance to write it all out. <= run on sentence much XD. anyway, i feel like before Ryuzaki's betrayal, the characters, for the most part, were sort of in an 'Avatar universe' setting in terms of tone. so, a lot of it was very playful in terms of what was going on. like the show, even though they were in a war, the characters felt more innocent. and after Ryuzaki's betrayal and mostly their time in COAL, i feel like the tone has changed and they're all not as innocent as they once were. to me, the RP has comic relief but it doesn't have as much of that playfulness as it did in the beginning of the story. i feel like it's darker and there's something different about the characters. im probably not explaining this very well lol but what i mean is, when Ryuzaki sees the group again (and im only using Ryuzaki as an example because he was the only one that was in the group and has not seen them since after the village takeover) i feel as though he will see a clear, physical, emotional change in all the characters. like, he's going to look at them and see that he really fucked up these people by taking over the village. again, i don't know if it's just me that's getting this impression but i definitely see a change in my character.

and, i guess bringing this full circle, i think it's part of this idea that the characters have been through a lot as opposed to how they were set up as friends in the beginning is the reason why i feel 1. that they are all very close friends as compared to the beginning where they were still seen as friends and 2. why i think a split between opinions on whether or not to leave Ai was completely realistic. because i feel like a person is more reluctant to leave someone behind when they've gone through what this group has gone through as opposed to what was going on in the beginning of the RP. if Ai had said something in the beginning of the RP even right after the betrayal, i feel like it's totally justifiable for the entire group to just get up and walk away from her. but i feel like what's been happening in COAL has made the group stronger and therefore harder to break apart.

the end =D

btw, i also had some really weird RP dreams that i am so going to share.
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