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Literature!!!

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zfish9
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Post  Loyal Subject Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:12 pm

^ it doesnt look like Bionicle. I was just saying it reminded me of it. if you're looking at the new cover, there's a robot thing...
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Post  Lee Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:12 pm

I bought a diary from the Civil War, it's from a soldier in the unit I portray. He joined at 12 as a musician during 1854, but from what I'm guessing had to become a rifleman at the outbreak of the Civil War.

So far the first pages are interesting and really in detail. That's what I needed about the unit I portray, it's in so much detail now that I can actually picture and understand what it was like in the conditions of the Regular army during the 1850's. Compared to the army of today, they were treated like slaves.
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Post  Loyal Subject Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:14 pm

^ well that's a lose-lose situation
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Post  Lee Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:21 pm

Not really, I'm talking about todays pampered standards.

Back then America was still a growing country and not well off, why do you think the Civil War began in the first place?

The barrack conditions, the food, pay, and clothing weren't that great. It wasn't like if you looked at a picture of a soldier from the units they would look like poor starving to death diseased and unhygienic person. They provided the men as best as they could.

Through strict discipline and steadfastness they became the backbone of the army we know today. What they had to go through, if one understands, they would have a deeper appreciation for the men under service during that time and even today.
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Post  Loyal Subject Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:31 pm

^ oh well when you said "they were treated like slaves" i kind of got the impression they were in a poor situation.

i honestly dont really have an opinion on the soldiers fighting overseas since the media is all over them it creates a sort of illusion. but i will say i did see a news coverage on a soldier that threw a puppy off a cliff and filmed it. there was an argument that the puppy was already dead when he threw it but anyway, there are certain things where i think 'ok listen i dont care who you are, thats a no no in my book' and that's one of them. so that's the only opinion ive ever really had.

and i also try to stay away from the 1700s-1800s period because that's when genocide was occurring for the Native Americans and I take offense to that. especially during the Jackson period though that's mostly just against Jackson in general and not the soldiers.

off topic: oh sweet i didnt think they'd have Jiminy Cricket say jackass on ABC family and they did!
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Post  Lee Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:38 pm

There's a thousands of soldiers, you're going to find one bad one in the lot. And the sad thing is those good soldiers who do their job are overlooked due to the dirty deeds of that one soldier. They then are all branded as devils.

Then there is the idea of the soldier being in war. He has seen his close comrades being split in two and has been told to kill or be killed. Him and that enemy have nothing against each other personally but one has to die. So they end up taking their life through some means. Seeing people torn apart is not a normal every day chore, it tears at ones mentality until they snap. You can't blame them, we are here in a land of the free where such gruesome images are not common, so a biased opinion from someone who hasn't been through the sheer horror that they had to go through holds no water.

I have seen such things, but not in battle. I have seen someone being really injured on the job, I won't go into detail but they lost parts. It's disturbing, I don't know how else to put it.
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Post  Loyal Subject Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:01 pm

^ i was mostly referring to the scalp hunting people did, not actually fighting in battle along with the Crazy Horse incident in which they called him to a meeting and then they captured him and killed him. then they refused to give up his body. not to mention, you dont have to be in battle to commit a genocide. they would force the native americans off land that was given to them in treaties by the government and then all they had to do was just wait for them to starve to death. though that's not to soldiers in particular, that's pretty much just americans in general. and that is my fault that i wasnt specific enough but i didnt want to actually get into it.

i know not all soldiers are bad or good. but i do wish there were more people in general who were more like the soldier in dances with wolves. i mean, they knew genocide was going on, they could have done something about it. jackson defied the constitution for crying out loud and people did nothing about this. but that's just my distaste for jackson coming into this again. and my anti-establishment nature.

and that is exactly why i said i stay away from that time period because i do know my opinion would be biased (except my opinion of Jackson himself, i dont like him, never will). but what annoys me most is Americans don't want to admit there was ever a genocide. a simple apology would do nicely. and i dont consider giving people money after they prove they're a Native American an apology.

it's true ive never seen violence to that degree and even if i did, id pass out in a heartbeat. but even still, although id understand why they took a certain action, i still wouldn't call it justified. and taking a dog and throwing it off a cliff, much less filming it is one of those things, as i said. but, again, that's just a personal thing.
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Post  Lee Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:46 pm

An apology is too late now. I don't think it's right to expect one from someone of the skin color to apologize for something they did not do. That's like going to Germany and asking for one from WWII. They are long dead whoever was responsible.

Like I said we wouldn't understand until we are in their shoes. Imagine waking up every morning thinking "Well I got to kill or be killed again." or "Some buddies going to have his head explode or an enemy will. I'll see him face to face and his eyes before he dies." It gets to them. Always having to be on the alert on unidentified foreign territory in case someone wanted to kill you. I know even me with my positive attitude would wear down mentally from such an exposure. It's more of a psychological thing, I don't know enough to go too far in detail with it, but I know that one soldier wasn't just throwing a puppy for kicks, he had something wrong with him, possibly from being exposed to war. Plus now that media is so readily available it's easy to put stuff up that was just as common before.

Granted that there will always be bad eggs, there are good ones to. The United States Regulars (the ones I portray) would be one of the exceptions during the trying times. If it wasn't for them, the Native Americans would of possibly perished, since they provided them with protection along with other duties.
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Post  Loyal Subject Sun Aug 16, 2009 5:22 pm

^ yeah but the United Nations recognizes what happened during WWII was a genocide when there are genocides that are still unrecognized as such today. Hitler has even been quoted saying "Who remembers the Armenians?" when asked about what he was doing in Germany. Meanwhile, the Armenians are another group of people that were essentially almost killed off completely yet America doesn't recognize it as a genocide because of our ties with Turkey (which I also think is complete bogus). If the country doesn't want to apologize for it, at least recognize it as a genocide.

I know I don't understand what the soldiers are going through and if I did understand of course I would sympathize for them. But I still don't think certain actions are justified, it just makes it more understandable. And that's with anyone. A better example would be Columbine. I mean, those kids were tormented by their peers and were suffering from depression because of it. Of course it's understandable why they did what they did. But, that doesn't make it right to go into the school and shoot people. I don't condemn these people for their actions, I'm just saying I don't think their actions can be justified. It's one thing if you're doing something and there's an accident, it's another if you hurt someone on purpose (and it's not out of self defense).

In the case of the Native Americans, I feel like the egg carton consisted mostly of bad eggs and less of good ones. Of course, this is speaking from Columbus' days onward, not just the 1800s. Though I am glad that you're representing the good eggs.

On another note, I bought a book today that contains all of Lewis Carroll's writings. I'm currently reading a poem in which he (the narrator though I believe the narrator is Lewis Carroll himself in this particular poem) is speaking with a Ghost that has come to haunt his house. It's rather funny. It's called Phantasmagoria.
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Post  Lee Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:30 pm

Granted they had their share of ill moments as well, but that can be said about anyone. Soldiers have to follow orders after all, it's not like today where a soldier can ignore an order and get dishonorably charged. Disobeying an order back then meant death by some means. Or in a leaders case death or the abuse of their comrades they command somehow.

Also about the dog incident, I was trying to justify it, I was just trying to find answers. People can always brand and just say "Evil" but knowing more about the situation at hand helps to, it gives more insight in it.

Isn't Phantasmagoria a Disney film?
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Post  Loyal Subject Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:40 pm

^ oh i wouldnt think of someone as evil for doing that. i dont really think there is evil to begin with. at least not pure evil ^_~ my bad.

i know they have to follow orders. that's why i mentioned the soldier in Dances with Wolves. if enough people did that or at least felt that way about the situation, i think there would have been a more likely chance of change. and as i said, that's also just my anti-establishment nature talking.

is it a disney film? i have no clue. i will go and find that out right now =D.

EDIT: no it's not.
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Post  Lee Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:23 am

Wait maybe I'm thinking of Fantasia...yeah never mind that was what I was thinking about Razz
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Post  Loyal Subject Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:33 am

i love Fantasia.

but yeah the hardest part of reading this is it's one of those...ehh i dont know how to describe it. let me just get a picture:

http://home.earthlink.net/~alan53-2/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/bk-CompleteLewisCarrollLeather.jpg

but yeah it's a nice copy so im afraid to take it outside and read it. similar to what happened with my dad's Complete Stories of Sherlock Holmes (i didnt even finish one mystery) XD.
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Post  Lee Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:49 am

Why are you afraid to take it outside? Is it a rare or out of print book?
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Post  Loyal Subject Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:11 am

^ no, it's just a really nice book and i dont want to get it ruined.
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Post  Lee Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:02 pm

Oh come on just take it out on a sunny day. It's not going to die if a bug lands on it. I always take books about the Civil War that are hard to find outside and read them, even at reenactments.
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Post  Loyal Subject Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:17 pm

^ oh i dont care if books get on it. i was worried that it would get wet because i sit out by the pool and read. and my dad did get it wet but only a few drops so it dried quickly.
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Post  Lee Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:49 pm

I sure hope you don't mind if another book makes contact with it...it's not like it's going to do anything PG-13.
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Post  Loyal Subject Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:43 am

oops i meant bugs. haha. sorry, i was tired last night and made a huge typo XD
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Post  Lee Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:47 pm

Oh I know I couldn't resist. Also just keep some kind of plastic cover for your book then or don't go so close to a pool or wherever it's getting wet.
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Post  Loyal Subject Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:52 pm

^ yeah i brought my plastic bag out to cover it. the problem was, i was sitting far away from the pool but some people were jumping in without warning and the water traveled all the way to where i was sitting.

i finished the poem by the way. well actually, the entire work contained several poems but i think the first one was the best by far. im now reading Slyvie and Bruno. After that, I hope to read Wonderland Puzzles and Games.
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Post  Lee Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:07 pm

Sounds like you're really liking that book. I'm not too much of a fan on poems and those deep short stories. Though if it's a book about history, interesting history, like the American Civil War for example I'm all over it.
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Post  Loyal Subject Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:20 pm

^ to be honest, im not a fan of poetry either. like i said, i only liked the first one because it was funny. Slyvie and Bruno is a story. part of the problem is usually his poems are nonsense poems so at times they dont make sense or contain words that dont exist. the Hunting of the Snark is one of those. I might re-read that one since I kind of understood it XD.
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Post  Lee Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:25 pm

How could you understand it if you're not supposed to?
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Post  Loyal Subject Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:35 pm

because it has some logic at times. but if you cant differentiate between the nonsense and the logic, it makes no sense. like in the hunting of the snark, they're traveling to an island where the snark is but the boat travels backwards or something like that. it's really weird. and the nonsense words sound like real words. it's not like Dr. Seuss when you can pretty much guess what's a real word and what isn't. so at times im reading it and thinking "is this a real world or not and if so what does it mean?" he also uses a lot of puns like shakespeare. but i cant help but want to read it because his poems are really funny at times. like at the end of the ghost one, the ghost figures out he's haunting the wrong house XD.
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