Is Katara A Marysue?

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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Loyal Subject on Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:34 pm

^ if they didn't justify it for her though it would be funny. like how some people need to do dangerous things because they like getting the adrenaline rush? such as those that go on roller coasters and like to watch horror movies?

omg that would be funny. it's kind of like how Aang reacted after being on the Unagi. we need someone to go all crazy dare devil XD
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Lee on Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:36 pm

we need someone to go all crazy dare devil XD
What, do you mean in the RP? You can pretty much take Ai out of that, she makes dumb mistakes and crazy things, but those are all like not from her conscious mind.

Neither are most of them...the only ones I can really think of are the Bloody Bandits...
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Loyal Subject on Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:42 pm

no i was talking about in Avatar. but the RP works too.

and no, it has to be someone consciously doing it. Ai doesn't count XD
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Lee on Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:47 pm

Well you said we so I thought you meant us. Anyway Kozue is just too shy and Roister is just...Roister. That would clash too much with his personality.

Honestly I don't know if Lee would do something like that. If someone told him it was part of his training, I guess he would be all over it.
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Loyal Subject on Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:49 pm

yeah....my bad...i meant the Avatar community needs to have an episode like that XD
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Lee on Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:51 pm

Well now that you got me thinking about it, I'm going to work it in somewhere :P
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Loyal Subject on Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:53 pm

Ai's the best candidate. she'd totally do something stupid like that consciously if someone put the idea in her head :p
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Lee on Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:56 pm

Not really, you also have to have the strength, guts, and will to do it, and I don't think she's cut out for that.
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Loyal Subject on Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:29 pm

I wouldn't say typical teenagers that do stupid, dangerous stuff have the guts, strength, and will to do it. I'd say they're just being reckless and think they can do whatever they want. It's like they think they will never die. It's a different mentality.

Plus, whoever the character was wouldn't need to start out as being a daredevil. They could also easily have something reckless happen to them by accident, get the rush from that, and then want more. Like when you go on a ride and you want to go on it again because you liked the rush of the first ride.
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Lee on Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:23 am

Ai doesn't strike me as the type who is fearless or feels that she is invulnerable. Behind all her obliviousness, she's still cautious. Cautious used loosely...but you get what I meant.
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Loyal Subject on Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:08 am

well im not saying she's going to jump off a building or something lol. but if she had the option to steal from pirates or, at the very least, join/interact/whatever like Katara did, she might actually do it. it depends on what it is. but she's definitely the type of person where if you got something into her head was a good idea and she did it and liked it, she'd do other crazy things. that's what i meant. The others are too level headed to fall for something like that.

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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Lee on Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:46 pm

well im not saying she's going to jump off a building or something lol. but if she had the option to steal from pirates or, at the very least, join/interact/whatever like Katara did, she might actually do it. it depends on what it is. but she's definitely the type of person where if you got something into her head was a good idea and she did it and liked it, she'd do other crazy things. that's what i meant. The others are too level headed, would get in trouble because of her recklessness, and always be the ones to figure a way to fix everything.

Crappy meme, but I got to...

Fixed.
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Loyal Subject on Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:40 pm

which proves my point that she would be the most likely to do something like that :p
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Lee on Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:05 pm

But what she would do is do something like jump off a cliff unprepared. Then someone would have to risk themsevles to save her butt and at the end she'd be like woohoo that was fun, I'm doing it again!

Then that someone wouldn't bother the second time around :P
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Loyal Subject on Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:35 pm

exactly.

well, she might not be that extreme. i could see her bungee jumping or going sky diving, being like 'OMG WHAT DID I GET MYSELF INTO', then she'd be like 'let's do that again.'

meanwhile, everyone around her suffers :p
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Cana Alberona on Thu Oct 27, 2011 1:59 pm

Kattara is'nt really a Mary-sue on the grounds that her flaws include getting jealous , not being over top powerful (not by avatar standards) and that unlike most Mary-sues you can relate and feel human emotion from her.

Suki is much worse In my opinion as she normally is used as nothing more than a plot device. I would also say Ty-lee is a Mary sue but her whole background kinda salvages her ,similar thing with Mei though she really got screwed over by her crush on Zuko which weakened her character.

Though mainly I'm bitter as I really wanted a fight between her and Azula before the lightning shot ( I always justify this as Mei being stronger than her skill - fighting wise).
It's funny but I see the Non-benders as the stronger characters most of time , Azula being the only master jack of all trades.
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Lee on Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:32 pm

The thing with most of those characters you just named off is that they are villains. Generally villains are expected to have an upper hand and at times be better than the protagonists in more then one way. It's what makes for an interesting journey.

There is no doubt that Azula is a marysue, but she is rightly so, because she is the main villain. The others had less screen time, so their Sue factor (for lack of a better word) did not shine over brightly.

Because Katara was in the show more then all of them, that is the reason it stuck out more.

Had TyLee not intervened in the fight, I'm sure Azula could possibly had killed Mai. But that's a whole different discussion for another topic.
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Loyal Subject on Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:40 pm

How is Azula a Mary Sue?
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Lee on Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:52 pm

Most villains are. I mean she just screams it...you really can't deny that.
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Cana Alberona on Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:22 pm

The one thing that makes Azula less sueish ( coined an new linguistic term there lee) is the fact she has issues that revolve around her friends.
I mean sure she is good looking very powerful and smart but she is also constantly on edge and her personality and actions actually make her suffer even before her sanity starts to slip.
The fact she displays Sociopathic behaviour due to the corrupt fire nation morals and split parental favouritism makes her awesomeness less so. Not many mary sues have one parent holding them in great light and the other as a monster.

The fact that she can't date boys properly and is very envious towards her closet friends ( Ty-lees looks and Meis bond with Zuko) makes her flawed and balances out quite nicely in my opinion.

Mei would have died from the lightning easily and no doubt ( she had metal in her hands too and all over her) but I don't think Azula could fight her without lightning.
I back this up as when Mei disobeys Azulain Be Sing Se she references that Azula can shoot lightning at her all she wants.
It implies that is the main fear and source of control Azula has over Mei. Symbolically Zuko is able to redirect lightning and also Mei's loyalty : - p. The lightning being stopped by Ty-lee also fits in as she tackles the fear head on and shows Azula that fear can't stop the human heart.




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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Loyal Subject on Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:01 pm

Right. I was just a little confused because I wouldn't necessarily consider Azula a Mary Sue. I don't know, but when I imagine a Mary Sue, it's someone that is 'perfect' in the sense that they're not only perfect at what they do, how they look, but are also genuinely liked by everyone except the villain. And since Azula is the villain, she doesn't necessarily fit the bill.

plush, there's the elephant in the room that she's just a total beatch and those kinds of people aren't typically Mary Sues :p. or, at the very least, they're not really considered Mary Sues.

i think Azula's issues aren't even just the issues she has with her friends. it's also the fact that she's her worst enemy: she pushes herself to be perfect hoping one day it'll all be worth it in the end. hence why she's so pissed when her dad tells her she can't go on the raid to burn the Earth Kingdom. and then when she gets what she wants, she becomes too paranoid to actually enjoy what she's been working towards the entire time. in short, Azula is an extreme example of someone who has failed life :p
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Lee on Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:40 pm

A sue doesn't always have to be some complete incarnation of perfection right? I always thought some sues could have flaws, but there was enough to identify them as a sue still...I could be wrong, but that's how I always thought of it.
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Loyal Subject on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:08 am

I don't know. Like I said, I don't really like the term Mary Sue.

A Mary Sue can have flaws but the flaws don't really hold the character back I guess? Like Bella for instance is a klutz and doesn't have self confidence but that never really holds her back because she ends up getting everything she wanted anyway.

Katara's flaws never really get the best of her: she gets a free pass almost every time as we said.

But Azula's flaws lead to her downfall. And they get the best of her on multiple occasions. While the audience is meant to sympathize with her sometimes, it's always clear that her flaws are wrong to the audience. We never get this impression with Bella or Katara. I think that's the main difference. Because, in theory, if it's okay for them to have flaws then technically almost typical villain that exists is a Mary/Gary Sue/Stu because it's meant for the villains to get what they want more easily than the hero. Otherwise, the villain wouldn't really be a threat and can't really have a downfall.

And, I'm not saying Katara is Bella. Katara is a much better character. But I couldn't think of anyone else to use as an example other than Bella XD. But anyway, if Azula is a Mary Sue, I think she's a Mary Sue that they pulled off well and executed well. Because if you use the standards we're using, then a lot of characters would be Mary Sues or Gary Stues. But there are certain ones that fail and certain ones that don't.
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Lee on Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:24 am

There are many versions of MarySues in my opinion. The term to me doesn't mean full blown. It works for Azula because she is the villain. In the beginning we don't know of her mental issues.

At the start she was just that manipulative, calculating, good looking (well not ugly, but you get the picture), and bending prodigy. I might be leaving a few off, but you get the picture.

So the reason it works for her at the start is because she is the villain. MarySues don't have to be just the good guys. The reason it hurts Katara is because she is part of the protagonist group that is in almost every episode. She is focused around a lot more then Azula who has that clever and intimidation of where she will emerge to confront them.
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

Post  Loyal Subject on Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:51 am

^ true though i would argue beauty doesn't really have anything to do with the Mary Sue because media in general portrays characters 'beautiful'. so if beauty was an issue, you'd have to call almost every character a Mary Sue.
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Re: Is Katara A Marysue?

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